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skipper
Junior Member
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Registered: 12-05-2011 Location:
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posted on 05-05-2012 at 20:00 |
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women's point of view on dating--need a discussion
There are a number of dating discussion groups out there that consist of 99% men. These men are always complaining that women have it easy when dating. If a girl disagrees, she is either ignored or is actually yelled at by the guys for lying.
I would like to start a discussion group for the women out there who DO have problems with men not being interested in them unless they are drunk or something.
To show you what I am complaining about, read these comments.
From
From
From
These are just the most obvious ones. If you look at these websites on a regular basis, these topics come up all the time. Even if the person asks something else, the discussion often moves in this direction.
Soooo,
I want to hear from other women who are often ignored by men. I DO NOT want to hear from men being ignored by women. You have plenty of other websites to visit.
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skipper
Junior Member
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posted on 05-05-2012 at 20:22 |
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example 1
Since the links aren't working, I'm going to copy and paste.
Men have so many options and I'm sick of it!*
The men I know have women lined up. These women have taken a number and are waiting around, hoping he'll choose them. He has so many options, he never has to settle down because he can get easy sex anytime.
The last guy I dated is a drug addict, with a crappy job, who lives like a frat boy at 38. He's a tiny bit above average looking, maybe a 6 in VERY low light. Women love him. And I mean hot, successful women. He told me every time he goes out women are like piranhas. He's beating them off with a stick. One of our mutual friends confirmed how much women love him.
I have a friend who's unemployed, a smoker (pot and cigarettes), very average looking (I'm being generous here), married (separated, though not legally), has two kids, and, again, women love him. He just started doing online dating and he hooks up with every woman on the first date or has to turn them down (because he isn't interested). These are attractive, professional women and they all want a relationship with him, but he's not interested.
I don't get it. Both guys could be described as charming initially, but they're losers. Maybe the above just pertains to men over 30.
I definitely can't relate to the men on LS who can't get dates because I never see this. I see women throwing themselves at the few available men, and these aren't quality guys. Every man I know is doing incredibly well. Dudes with holey t-shirts barely covering their beer bellies are getting cute girls (ok, that might have been hyperbole ). What the heck is going on in my town?
I can't find a man who wants a commitment because either he's already in a relationship, he has his pick of women, or he's horrible (and that's ok because some woman will want him), or a combination of the three. I'm so frustrated.
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How is it men's fault if women line up to be with a loser? Also there are many attractive men and loyal men who have many things going for them that can't find love if their life depended on it. Losers like this really seem to appeal to certain women these days.
Originally Posted by Woggle
How is it men's fault if women line up to be with a loser? Also there are many attractive men and loyal men who have many things going for them that can't find love if their life depended on it. Losers like this really seem to appeal to certain women these days.
I don't think Iris is saying it is men's fault (and of course she's wrong if she is). I think she's just sharing her experience, which runs counter to many experiences expressed on LS. She has her own frustrations. I don't see her blaming ALL men for them. The title may come off that way, but I'm assuming that's the purpose of the asterisk (*).
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Today, 7:58 PM #4
verhrzn
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Location: Midwest, USA
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My last ex is very similar. Under-employed, frequent pot smoker, biggest hobbies are video games and watching TV, never works out except the occasional bike ride.
He's not bad looking (he's got a bit of a gut), but what he really has going for him is charm. He is very gregarious and has tons of friends. Women adore him... he was constantly telling me stories about how he slept with her and she was boring, or slept with her and she was too submissive. In one con weekend, he pulled down at least 2 women. By his stories and my calculations, he's slept with almost every female in his social circle who isn't a girlfriend of one of his friends.
I don't understand it either, but that's charisma for you. It's why when I see guys on this forum complaining how they can't get women because they're short, I just laugh and laugh.
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Today, 8:01 PM #5
Necromancer
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Behind you...
Posts: 102
Strong troll?
The only women i have had dying over me are way below my league.
A 6 looking guy will never in a 87654213546575453963425843643832482834232 years have a line of a hot/successful women drolling over him.....unless he´s really famous or rich.
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Today, 8:15 PM #6
Bob_Funk
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 125
I've only met a handful of guys in my entire life who've had girls throwing themselves at them. Most are forced to spend their teens and twenties in a sexual desert.
There's definitely some selection bias with the guys you're dealing with. That much is obvious.
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Realize that 99% of men will have a sh*t life. That guys are cheap and disposable. Find peace with that.
Today, 8:17 PM #7
Necromancer
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Behind you...
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by verhrzn
My last ex is very similar. Under-employed, frequent pot smoker, biggest hobbies are video games and watching TV, never works out except the occasional bike ride.
He's not bad looking (he's got a bit of a gut), but what he really has going for him is charm. He is very gregarious and has tons of friends. Women adore him... he was constantly telling me stories about how he slept with her and she was boring, or slept with her and she was too submissive. In one con weekend, he pulled down at least 2 women. By his stories and my calculations, he's slept with almost every female in his social circle who isn't a girlfriend of one of his friends.
I don't understand it either, but that's charisma for you. It's why when I see guys on this forum complaining how they can't get women because they're short, I just laugh and laugh.
I have been told i will get girls because of my personality, girls are always complimenting my personality to.......still the girls go for my better looking friends.
You women make it always sound like if you have a good personality you are the holy grail that will need to kick women in 10 mile radius of you.
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Today, 8:21 PM #8
SarahRose
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OP I have to ask what attracted YOU to loser number 1 that you dated? Why did you date him?
For the loser friend, why are you friends with him? what is it about him?
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Today, 8:28 PM #9
Necromancer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Funk
I've only met a handful of guys in my entire life who've had girls throwing themselves at them. Most are forced to spend their teens and twenties in a sexual desert.
There's definitely some selection bias with the guys you're dealing with. That much is obvious.
The only guy i know who has women all over him is my friend who is not in the top 20%.........he´s more in the top 5%.
I don´t know where this myth of average looking guys who have women all over them because of their charisma came from....
The chances of this happening are the same as winning the lottery.
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Today, 8:31 PM #10
verhrzn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer
The only guy i know who has women all over him is my friend who is not in the top 20%.........he´s more in the top 5%.
I don´t know where this myth of average looking guys who have women all over them because of their charisma came from....
The chances of this happening are the same as winning the lottery.
Then how do you explain my ex? I sent you his picture... does he look like he's in the top 5%?
No. It isn't about a "good personality"... it's about charisma and confidence.
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Today, 8:33 PM #11
udolipixie
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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From my experiences/observations:
Guys generally have loads of options to chose from and most are more attractive than himself. Their options and the appeal of said options only increasing with age as gals don't tend to be as shallow as guys thinking an older person is only attractive when they don't look their age.
Guy who have no options tend to be the unattractive or have no to low confidence, self-esteem, social/conversational skills, and/or experience by circumstance. Offsetting this and several other things is their niceness which is a default expectation of most adults as well as often really passive aggressive or a pushover.
Guys who have low options tend to think most of their options are below them in leagues which is a toss up as studies have shown that guys tend to overrate themselves and gals tend to underrate themselves.
Rather than focus on your frustation it's probably best suited accept the situation as is and work on your other wants. If that doesn't appeal and having a guy commit to you is that important then take the horrible men or further lower your standards to half-decent as many gals I know/meet do.
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Today, 8:40 PM #12
Imajerk17
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Um yeah. Most guys take themselves out of the game so those of us who are still playing are getting better than we deserve. Sorry for party-rocking....
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Today, 8:50 PM #13
NYC-BigKat
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Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by iris219
The men I know have women lined up. These women have taken a number and are waiting around, hoping he'll choose them. He has so many options, he never has to settle down because he can get easy sex anytime.
The last guy I dated is a drug addict, with a crappy job, who lives like a frat boy at 38. He's a tiny bit above average looking, maybe a 6 in VERY low light. Women love him. And I mean hot, successful women. He told me every time he goes out women are like piranhas. He's beating them off with a stick. One of our mutual friends confirmed how much women love him.
I have a friend who's unemployed, a smoker (pot and cigarettes), very average looking (I'm being generous here), married (separated, though not legally), has two kids, and, again, women love him. He just started doing online dating and he hooks up with every woman on the first date or has to turn them down (because he isn't interested). These are attractive, professional women and they all want a relationship with him, but he's not interested.
I don't get it. Both guys could be described as charming initially, but they're losers. Maybe the above just pertains to men over 30.
I definitely can't relate to the men on LS who can't get dates because I never see this. I see women throwing themselves at the few available men, and these aren't quality guys. Every man I know is doing incredibly well. Dudes with holey t-shirts barely covering their beer bellies are getting cute girls (ok, that might have been hyperbole ). What the heck is going on in my town?
I can't find a man who wants a commitment because either he's already in a relationship, he has his pick of women, or he's horrible (and that's ok because some woman will want him), or a combination of the three. I'm so frustrated.
Gee I wish I was in your town 'cause its the opposite here in NYC .
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Today, 8:53 PM #14
Shaun-Dro
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by iris219
The men I know have women lined up. These women have taken a number and are waiting around, hoping he'll choose them. He has so many options, he never has to settle down because he can get easy sex anytime.
The last guy I dated is a drug addict, with a crappy job, who lives like a frat boy at 38. He's a tiny bit above average looking, maybe a 6 in VERY low light. Women love him. And I mean hot, successful women. He told me every time he goes out women are like piranhas. He's beating them off with a stick. One of our mutual friends confirmed how much women love him.
I have a friend who's unemployed, a smoker (pot and cigarettes), very average looking (I'm being generous here), married (separated, though not legally), has two kids, and, again, women love him. He just started doing online dating and he hooks up with every woman on the first date or has to turn them down (because he isn't interested). These are attractive, professional women and they all want a relationship with him, but he's not interested.
I don't get it. Both guys could be described as charming initially, but they're losers. Maybe the above just pertains to men over 30.
I definitely can't relate to the men on LS who can't get dates because I never see this. I see women throwing themselves at the few available men, and these aren't quality guys. Every man I know is doing incredibly well. Dudes with holey t-shirts barely covering their beer bellies are getting cute girls (ok, that might have been hyperbole ). What the heck is going on in my town?
I can't find a man who wants a commitment because either he's already in a relationship, he has his pick of women, or he's horrible (and that's ok because some woman will want him), or a combination of the three. I'm so frustrated.
You should be ashamed of yourself for trolling on here with these lies. I'm beside myself right now because this post is nonsense just to get a rise out of the male population. So guys, please don't fall for it!
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Today, 8:56 PM #15
verhrzn
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun-Dro
You should be ashamed of yourself for trolling on here with these lies. I'm beside myself right now because this post is nonsense just to get a rise out of the male population. So guys, please don't fall for it!
She is NOT trolling! I've had the exact same experience. I even sent Necro my ex's picture to prove that me and Iris aren't just chasing after hot male models, or whatever counts as the 5% in your guys' head.
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skipper
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Posts: 22
Registered: 12-05-2011 Location:
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posted on 05-05-2012 at 20:23 |
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example 2
New Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2
Men are enslaved to women in the dating world.
(First like to say I refuse to play the dating game of life because it's one sided meaning it ONLY benefits females.)
Life as we know it here on mother earth for us humans is mostly an illusion. There is no true equality because men and women are NOT equal. There is no love for the divine and magic don't exist. What we have today is a system of control giving women power because in truth society still views you as an inferior lifeform.
Instead, today I'm going to tell you what women's true power is. Females are designed to manipulate and control men of Alpha or Beta status. Alpha are the most simple minded beast because they think they are in control when in fact the are utilitarian OBJECTS molded and crafted by society. Your very Alpha male instincts make sure you stay in your gender ROLE like a good little pet. From how you act to what you wear is crafted by what certain high status WOMEN DEMAND!
Most men are so enslaved by female control that they still because in Honor, loyalty and pride. Three things that really never existed in the world of science. All three words designed to keep the White Knight Beta male in his place as a (slave) Protector and (drone) Leader of (her) his house. Because truth be told if you men don't dress, act, speak, or make women feel a certain why you have 0% chance of getting with her. These here is when male enslavement instinct kicks in. When males think they are manning up ut in reality they are becoming what their society and/or females demand of them.
Male existence is that of a happy slave. You TRUST your loyal, honorable wife not realizing such things are a system of control women use to keep you in your prideful gender role as her protector slave.
Mind you I'm NOT saying all of this is bad. I'm just telling men how reality works. If you play the dating game you will pass the final test in become the females pet. Because at any given time your female master can easily find another male-slave. The only true path to freedom is going your own way by NOT dating women. You can have SAFE sex with them but never date or connect deeply with them if your a guy going his own way.
So again. once you understand the basic structure of female existence you'll realize she's designed to enslave men for her own needs no matter how much she (manipulates) puts on an act of warm heartedness. Your male instincts tells you to be her slave and you must be strong to fight it. (The real kicker is most of you men here won't ever know you're slaves.)
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Today, 12:31 PM #2
Imported
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 83
I take it by your avatar and your rationalization to make yourself feel better about not having any luck with women, that you have no social skills and spend way too much time playing video games. You're probably under 30 years old, but think you know it all. You don't. All that you typed out here is just excuses for your own situation that you rationalized out to make yourself believe it's somebody else's fault and there is no problem with you. Enjoy the fantasy world that you are building in your mind.
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Today, 12:39 PM #3
dasein
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Posts: 3,025
Welcome to the forum. Not sure I understand your OP, but this is a great place to vent frustrations and improve one's outlook and behaviors. Good luck.
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Today, 12:53 PM #4
ohmygoshistalk
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hmm
I spent the last 3 years (honestly) reading about why men do this and that to women. I discovered the madonna-whore complex, read about narcisstic men and I also read this:
One reason why romantic rejection is so common in society is a tendency called falling upward. People generally desire mates that are higher than themselves on such characteristics as status and physical attractiveness, but not ones who are lower. When someone falls in love with a person who has aspirations that are higher, that love is less likely to be reciprocated, potentially leading to rejection.
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Today, 12:54 PM #5
Bob_Funk
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Excellent post. It's a tradeoff for sure. Do I submit to this system which I find so oppressive and distasteful (dating) in hopes of acquiring the dangling carrot (sex)? Or do I go my own way and become celibate?
Unfortunately, being weak of flesh, I'm still leaning towards the former. I'm hoping by the time I'm 30 my libido will be diminished enough that I can truly go my own way.
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Realize that 99% of men will have a sh*t life. That guys are cheap and disposable. Find peace with that.
Last edited by Bob_Funk; Today at 1:03 PM..
Today, 1:55 PM #6
verhrzn
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Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,878
So get a Real Doll and "free" yourself from the oh-so-crushing hypnotism of p*ssy.
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Today, 2:07 PM #7
Caius Ballad
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmygoshistalk
I spent the last 3 years (honestly) reading about why men do this and that to women. I discovered the madonna-whore complex, read about narcisstic men and I also read this:
One reason why romantic rejection is so common in society is a tendency called falling upward. People generally desire mates that are higher than themselves on such characteristics as status and physical attractiveness, but not ones who are lower. When someone falls in love with a person who has aspirations that are higher, that love is less likely to be reciprocated, potentially leading to rejection.
Men and women do what they do because they are still animals. It's all basic instinct most of the world doesn't want to admit is true. Women by nature are hypergamous seeking higher status males. Men on the other hand simply want you to look highly attractive. It's basic human nature society views as evil or bad as you can see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imported
I take it by your avatar and your rationalization to make yourself feel better about not having any luck with women, that you have no social skills and spend way too much time playing video games. You're probably under 30 years old, but think you know it all. You don't. All that you typed out here is just excuses for your own situation that you rationalized out to make yourself believe it's somebody else's fault and there is no problem with you. Enjoy the fantasy world that you are building in your mind.
I don't hate women neither do I have any issues with them. My perception of reality is that of a brutal scientific view. I say around 90% of the world views relationships through a social engineered lens. How you reacted is as predicted seeing as I went past your comfort zone.
To everybody else: This is NOT a hate post. I respect females for their animal nature as i do men. The world we live in is pure BS. Looks to some degree and status matters a lot because we are still animals no matter how advance we think we are. We as humans need to stop looking at female hypergamy and certain male sexuality traits as a bad thing. It's neither GOOD or BAD to be honest.
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Today, 2:09 PM #8
Art_Critic
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You need to get laid
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Today, 2:21 PM #9
somedude81
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Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art_Critic
You need to get laid
A great deal many of us do.
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Today, 3:20 PM #10
Imported
Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Ballad
I don't hate women neither do I have any issues with them. My perception of reality is that of a brutal scientific view. I say around 90% of the world views relationships through a social engineered lens. How you reacted is as predicted seeing as I went past your comfort zone.
To everybody else: This is NOT a hate post. I respect females for their animal nature as i do men. The world we live in is pure BS. Looks to some degree and status matters a lot because we are still animals no matter how advance we think we are. We as humans need to stop looking at female hypergamy and certain male sexuality traits as a bad thing. It's neither GOOD or BAD to be honest.
That's funny, because your reaction is exactly as I predicted. I know you don't like the reality of your abilities with women and you'll rationalize the hell out of it to make it all seem pointless so that you don't actually have to experience life. You're trying so hard to sound smart, but you're just a kid or at the very least, someone with a little boy's perception of women and a refusal to grow up.
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Today, 3:42 PM #11
threebyfate
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*pulls on thigh-high black leather stiletto boots and cracks whip*
Heel!
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Today, 3:45 PM #12
ThaWholigan
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Location: South London
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This OP doesn't make sense. As far as I know, I am a slave to no-one. How odd......
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Today, 3:54 PM #13
zengirl
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 6,409
It sounds like you're talking about socialization. In a weird way that I don't agree with, but that's the best I can make out. We're all subject to socialization --- male or female --- and what is expected of us is very much determined by our culture's socialization regarding gender, but also other things. Having separate gender roles and socializing girls and boys differently is wrong, but it is a fact of life that probably isn't going away --- we can and have minimized it, opened our minds (as a society) to expanding and deteriorating roles that were previously laid out. Additionally, each region/country/family/socio-economic group/etc has different levels of socialization. I suppose you can be a slave to socialization, but not all people are or have to be.
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Today, 4:00 PM #14
PlumPrincess
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Ballad
Women by nature are hypergamous seeking higher status males. Men on the other hand simply want you to look highly attractive.
Unless most men are highly attractive it has to be concluded that men are also trying to find a partner with a higher status.
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Today, 5:13 PM #15
The Humbler
New Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3
Sounds like the op doesn't like women very much.
Oh well, more for me
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skipper
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Registered: 12-05-2011 Location:
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posted on 05-05-2012 at 20:24 |
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example 3
The problem with meeting women
i think that for a large number of guys that have problems meeting women, the issue is not that they aren't confident or have poor social skills (although there are many guys for whom those are the main stumbling blocks, i'm sure), but the fact that they just aren't around women enough or don't have the right kind of social circles! after all, most couple end up meeting each other through friends, so if you dont have a good circle of friends, what do you do.
around where i live, if you go out to any bar, you almost always see girls rolling with guys in big groups, or if the girls come alone, they end up calling some guy friends who join them later. i've seen this time and time again and know that 95 % of the time, guys that come alone, or just with their guy friends, (myself included), usually end up going home alone too
so the question is, how do you go about building an eclectic circle of friends?? consisting of guys and girls, so that you can use the network to meet potential partners??
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02-01-2010, 01:19 PM
JSizzle225
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Join Date: Dec 2009
5,148 posts, read 1,436,497 times
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Here's a quick tip. When at a bar, and a girl is surrounded by a group of guys, ignore the girl and befriend the guys. 1) You don't got to worry about scuffles. 2) Hey, you seem like a cool guy, you should talk to her sister.
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02-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Mr.Cat
Go Ahead And Befriend Me. See What Happens.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maryland
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Probably guys are not releasing enough pheromones or women have become inmune to them.
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02-01-2010, 01:24 PM
JSizzle225
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Join Date: Dec 2009
5,148 posts, read 1,436,497 times
Reputation: 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cat
Probably guys are not releasing enough pheromones or women have become inmune to them.
Actually this is the greatest advice ever. Guys are smelling less guy. Try not showering for 3 days and then go to the bar in an old t shirt and basketball shorts. Your man stink will have women crawling all over you.
Mr Cat, do you have a fund set up somewhere where I can financially reward such brilliant thought?
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02-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Mr.Cat
Go Ahead And Befriend Me. See What Happens.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maryland
6,892 posts, read 7,831,282 times
Reputation: 4793
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSizzle225
Actually this is the greatest advice ever. Guys are smelling less guy. Try not showering for 3 days and then go to the bar in an old t shirt and basketball shorts. Your man stink will have women crawling all over you.
Mr Cat, do you have a fund set up somewhere where I can financially reward such brilliant thought?
I take paypal.
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02-01-2010, 01:42 PM
ChessieMom
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
13,007 posts, read 8,814,187 times
Reputation: 10971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElysianEagle
i think that for a large number of guys that have problems meeting women, the issue is not that they aren't confident or have poor social skills (although there are many guys for whom those are the main stumbling blocks, i'm sure), but the fact that they just aren't around women enough or don't have the right kind of social circles! after all, most couple end up meeting each other through friends, so if you dont have a good circle of friends, what do you do.
so the question is, how do you go about building an eclectic circle of friends?? consisting of guys and girls, so that you can use the network to meet potential partners??
I disagree that you need to have some great "circle of friends". Join a gym and go regularly. Spend one evening a week in a library, or a bookstore. Spend a couple of hours every Sat morning a local Starbucks. Create some routines of social activity that will place you around others. And stick with it.
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02-01-2010, 02:02 PM
oberon_1
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The situation isn't that bad. Imagine living 100 years ago. How did people manage to know each other?
1) It depends where you live. Some places are better/easier then others. Why not consider a possible relocation?
2) That was a good advice about joining social groups like bicycle riding, yoga, gym, or anything you like for the long run. Don't seek/expect immediate rewards. Take your time. Be friendly and social with many people, not necessary young attractive women only.
3) Today, we have an amazing invention called the internet. At no time in history people enjoyed such terrific tool. Take advantage of it.
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02-01-2010, 02:08 PM
Ep-
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ehhh none of my friends like going to crowded social places most of the time so i fly solo. most people dont meet other people because they get intimidated by that large group of girls. ill walk right up to them and talk to them. dont get anywhere if ya dont try ya know?
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02-01-2010, 02:17 PM
gwynedd1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ep-
ehhh none of my friends like going to crowded social places most of the time so i fly solo. most people dont meet other people because they get intimidated by that large group of girls. ill walk right up to them and talk to them. dont get anywhere if ya dont try ya know?
Hi Ep-,
No reason to go right for the purty ones either. The most outgoing is the best route. She will get you in the group.
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02-01-2010, 02:35 PM
Coolhand68
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Try taking some college classes, lot's of women on campus.
Take other types of classes/lessons like dancing, cooking, photography etc.
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skipper
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posted on 05-05-2012 at 20:26 |
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example 4
Split: The "women have it easier" dead horse topic.
To the OP, awesome post man. I hope all is well with you and I wish you the best.
To Afterburner, my humble opinion is that no, constant rejection or just not being noticed for years doesn't mean something is wrong with you at all.
I think as a man, it is completely possible not to get noticed at all by MOTAS, and you can have everything else going for you in life. There millions of dateable guys who just are not noticed by girls for whatever reason - maybe its because the guy doesn't approach girls, maybe he's never in a situation to do so, or maybe girls just don't notice even if he is the one that would be a great fit - and that's not to say girls at fault, they have their own problems I do not face either and reasons for not noticing these guys. But that is reality, and though as in my other post I found it very hard to believe, but girls face this problem too.
The other point you may be overlooking is that there are certain situations where its not ok to express interest in women - and you decide for yourself, based on your experiences what these situations are, because they are situations where women will not reciprocate, no matter what, but if that makes up the majority of your attempts, you will feel frustrated and feel like it has something to do with you, instead of the situation that you keep repeating.
I'll give one personal example, and they in no way shape or form are for everyone.
1. I don't talk to girls who have a girls night out at a bar. I've gotten rejected too many times by a woman's friends in those situations, specifically saying they want to just talk to themselves. I've had women friends step in a middle of a conversation just to tell me this, and they had no idea what I was saying to their friend. One time it was ironic because I was talking to a girl about NOT getting a gf until you have shit in your personal life together, is that good way to look at it and she said absolutely and we kept talking, and it was clearly just a friendly conversation, then her friend interrupted and demanded I walk away.
I knew after that it HAD to be the situation, not me. So in this situation I know the majority of guys will get rejected, its the situation, not anything personally bad about me.
Maybe some guys can walk into that situation and impress all to the girls or do whatever is needed to get that number from the girl they like, but it is not me, so I don't do it. On the flipside, the most difficult part for me to figure out, and I still struggle with it, is what situations do I run it to where it is ok to go up to a girl I like and slightly express interest. But at least I'm spotting where not to do it, so saving myself time, energy, and frustration in doing so.
I know guys who make lots of money, are good looking, have their own place, doesn't objectify women, pretty much every area of their life is fine, and I wonder, how the hell can a girl not notice them? But I also know that a guy who spends all his time working and exercising probably is not in a place where he going to interact with lots of single women looking to date. It just will not happen.
Guys do have to put themselves out there a little more than women do, unless they run into women who approach them first, and I don't mean hit on every single girl, but guys do have to initiate more and play the numbers game, or figure out how to get around it.
The only guys who do not have to do that are famous people/musiciansactors, people who girls naturally gravitate towards. It doesn't mean anything bad about the guy who doesn't get noticed by girls. Maybe the situation is harder, but that isn't their fault, and it maybe frustrating at times, but again, its confusing the situation as something wrong with you. It's like saying you walk into a job interview against 100 other people - it's going to be tougher to get the offer, but you have tougher odds to begin with - you can get frustrated about it - but again, tougher odds doesn't mean there is something wrong with you personally.
Going to the heart of the original post, when I got fed up and started telling my friend to stop telling me I had it so good, I never had a gf, I have no one, no one cares, he said he didn't understand why I was so unhappy, and said years before he got with his serious gf, those were some of the happiest years of his life, and that I did not love myself, and that was a deep problem. I've heard this quote more than once, and I think Thinkstoomuch hits it on the head as to what the real problem is. When I hear people saying that to me, I literally cannot understand it, or think of it is as a foreign statement - like love myself? I can't love myself, I loathe myself. What does that even mean? But THEY get and feel what it means - I don't. My friend also told me that the thing he did not understand about me was that the 3 years before he met his gf were the happiest years of his life. And I sort of began to realize I did not respect or love myself very much at all, because he never seemed to care whether he was single or not - he was just concerned about himself, and enjoying himself.
That's why I like the OP post because it says almost exactly what my friend said and other people have told me that don't have INCEL - loving and respecting yourself is really important.
February 27th, 2012, 03:23 PM #2
Lacuna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon
Guys do have to put themselves out there a little more than women do, unless they run into women who approach them first, and I don't mean hit on every single girl, but guys do have to initiate more and play the numbers game, or figure out how to get around it.
OK, this just isn't true. Women don't have it easier. Would you please quit repeating this falsehood? From my point of view, it's MEN who don't have to do much to attract women. So I think it's fair to just say that both genders have an equally tough time.
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re: to lacuna
February 27th, 2012, 03:48 PM #3
Anon
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re: to lacuna
Hello Lacuna,
I am not trying to repeat a falsehood. I am just saying I think its possible for a guy to do everything right in his personal life, exercise, hobbies, career, etc, and it will not necessarily attract women to go out on dates. That's all I am saying, and it doesn't mean the guy is bad.
You will also notice in my post I concede this happens to women to, I just have a very hard time believing it because I've never seen it firsthand. That's not to say it isn't true.
Please, lets talk about this, and I don't want to be sounding like I'm generalizing women have it easier, because I know that they don't in many areas of life, and its real interesting to hear a woman tell me I'm wrong and they have it harder when it comes to getting a date.
So just to be clear, I am saying that if a woman is reasonably attractive (I am not saying this to be shallow - you do have to be somewhat attractive be considered by the opposite sex - just reality, but I don't believe you have to be jaw dropping whether you are a guy or girl), and she goes out to a bar/club, approaches guys, or posts an online dating profile, she is going to get lots more attention from guys RIGHT away than say, if a reasonably attractive guy did the same thing and nothing more. At which point, she can do whatever she wants with that attention, reciprocate or reject. If a girl in that situation is not getting attention I would believe its because she's completely unapproachable, and doesn't know how to signal its ok to come talk to me.
That said, I feel like a guy has to do much more than that, has to be very charismatic, have a good career, be funny, be very social, and may still never get any kind of attention from the opposite sex - and still has to remain confident at all times to hopefully get some success someday.
I am not saying the attention the girl gets will be from good guys or that if she were to go out w/any of these guys would be great or lead to anything meaningful, all I'm referring to is the initial attention. I'm also saying to this is how I see things, I'm not saying how it is, this just based on my real life experience with women - so anywhere you feel like here I'm stating a falsehood, please correct me, I want to learn from this.
February 27th, 2012, 03:59 PM #4
Lacuna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon
Hello Lacuna,
I am not trying to repeat a falsehood. I am just saying I think its possible for a guy to do everything right in his personal life, exercise, hobbies, career, etc, and it will not necessarily attract women to go out on dates. That's all I am saying, and it doesn't mean the guy is bad.
You will also notice in my post I concede this happens to women to, I just have a very hard time believing it because I've never seen it firsthand. That's not to say it isn't true.
Please, lets talk about this, and I don't want to be sounding like I'm generalizing women have it easier, because I know that they don't in many areas of life, and its real interesting to hear a woman tell me I'm wrong and they have it harder when it comes to getting a date.
So just to be clear, I am saying that if a woman is reasonably attractive (I am not saying this to be shallow - you do have to be somewhat attractive be considered by the opposite sex - just reality, but I don't believe you have to be jaw dropping whether you are a guy or girl), and she goes out to a bar/club, approaches guys, or posts an online dating profile, she is going to get lots more attention from guys RIGHT away than say, if a reasonably attractive guy did the same thing and nothing more. At which point, she can do whatever she wants with that attention, reciprocate or reject. If a girl in that situation is not getting attention I would believe its because she's completely unapproachable, and doesn't know how to signal its ok to come talk to me.
That said, I feel like a guy has to do much more than that, has to be very charismatic, have a good career, be funny, be very social, and may still never get any kind of attention from the opposite sex - and still has to remain confident at all times to hopefully get some success someday.
I am not saying the attention the girl gets will be from good guys or that if she were to go out w/any of these guys would be great or lead to anything meaningful, all I'm referring to is the initial attention. I'm also saying to this is how I see things, I'm not saying how it is, this just based on my real life experience with women - so anywhere you feel like here I'm stating a falsehood, please correct me, I want to learn from this.
This is a dead horse topic around here and I'm not going to discuss it. Maybe you should read some more of the board.
Also, I strongly advise that you get some therapy. You're clearly unhappy and your anger and depression are affecting your thinking and the way you see the world.
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Lacuna
February 27th, 2012, 04:05 PM #5
Anon
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Lacuna
I do not think there is a single inaccurate thing I just stated above in my post, but which thread do you refer to that states this same thing I feel? I'll read it.
February 27th, 2012, 04:29 PM #6
sadtwin
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Quote:
So just to be clear, I am saying that if a woman is reasonably attractive (I am not saying this to be shallow - you do have to be somewhat attractive be considered by the opposite sex - just reality, but I don't believe you have to be jaw dropping whether you are a guy or girl), and she goes out to a bar/club, approaches guys, or posts an online dating profile, she is going to get lots more attention from guys RIGHT away than say, if a reasonably attractive guy did the same thing and nothing more. At which point, she can do whatever she wants with that attention, reciprocate or reject. If a girl in that situation is not getting attention I would believe its because she's completely unapproachable, and doesn't know how to signal its ok to come talk to me.
That said, I feel like a guy has to do much more than that, has to be very charismatic, have a good career, be funny, be very social, and may still never get any kind of attention from the opposite sex - and still has to remain confident at all times to hopefully get some success someday.
In my experience, this is not true. Many attractive women are rarely approached for various reasons. And men certainly don't have to be the sort of superhero you describe in order to get any attention from women. People are just people. Your "women have it easier" stuff was frustrating enough, but now you're framing it as "women have it very easy, whereas it's impossible for men." I almost hesitate to continue this dead-horse-beating conversation by asking you what you're basing this on, but you might want to consider that in your own head and/or with a therapist.
As I said on your other thread: when you say that reasonably attractive women just have to show up and then lo, men will approach them, that's an insult to every woman here who hasn't found that to be the case for them. Based on what you've done so far here, I'm sure you'll apologize and say you didn't mean to insult women and then insult women again in your next post and then say you didn't mean to do that. If you could just quit insulting women, I, personally, think that'd be swell.
re: sadtwin
February 27th, 2012, 04:54 PM #7
Anon
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re: sadtwin
Ok, first off, I am not trying to flame or disrespect anyone at all on this board, men or women - you seem to be blatantly ignoring that part of my posts. I also said this is how I see thing based on my experiences and those of women I have known in my life, and that I concede women face this problem too. So you completely disregard that part of my post. If i have insulted the women here on this board, I sincerely apologize to all women here that have experienced for my comments. I acknowledge that there are women who face this same problem that I say I have faced as a man, and I did not meant to make light of your problems, and I don't really know how else to express that in a way you feel satisfied with my apology.
Me not having seen it women with this problem first hand doesn't mean it does not exist, I am very sorry if I did not make that clear before.
I was only stating it to point out if guys with an equivalent-level of attractiveness do not get approached by women as much as the other way around, its okay not to feel like its something wrong with the guy, thats the only reason I said it, not to offend women on this board who have the same problem. I thought that is a universally accepted fact, and this board is pointing out to me that's not the case.
That is also why I said to Lacuna no problem, we don't have to debate this, just point me to a thread where its discussed so I can read it, end of discussion. I don't want to offend anyone at all, you included I'm here just like anyone else trying to fix something they aren't happy with, or talk about it at least.
February 27th, 2012, 05:04 PM #8
Anon
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Boo Radley -
"But in terms of actually doing something about (or against) incel, it leaves me at least with a big question mark: If we arrive at the conclusion that the MOTAS we've invested emotions in simply didn't decide on us (with no systematic reason beneath it), then what is to be done? If it isn't us as a system or a pattern of issues, then we're left dumbfounded.
So, while I find your post really fascinating and positive (and that bears emphasising), it still leaves me with an unresolved conundrum."
Love to Kill a Mockingbird btw, both movie and book.
This isn't a complete answer to what you said, but what my brother told me was its never a good idea to invest lots of emotions and expectations in another person. He was telling me in context of a girl I went out with 3-4 times and really started to like her and was devastated when she disappeared, and said this was true particularly in the beginning stages of getting to know someone, so you don't get hurt if they flake along the way.
February 27th, 2012, 05:05 PM #9
coltsfan198
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I read through the debate between Anon and Lacuna. I believe its one of those subject matters where you have to agree to disagree. Anon has never been a women so i don't think it's possible to make generalizations about what they experience. It is the same thing with Lacuna for men.
coltsfan198
February 27th, 2012, 05:15 PM #10
Anon
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coltsfan198
I was just about to say add that too - for women who don't get noticed by guys and are frustrated about it, including Lacuna - I don't understand what that feels like because I am not a woman and I never will be, and again, apologize for not acknowledging it happens to the opposite sex too, its insulting and disrespectful, and going forward, you won't hear it coming from me.
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skipper
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posted on 06-01-2012 at 14:46 |
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elena kagan
Two years ago, when Elena Kagan was selected as a Supreme Court judge, there were some articles about why she had never married. Some of the articles said that the reason was that men were intimidated by her. It made me wonder: Is my problem that guys are intimidated by (shy, quiet, introverted) me rather than being put off by my looks?
There were two articles that I kept links to which talked about Kagan.
New York Times
Dallas Morning News
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skipper
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posted on 07-22-2012 at 11:21 |
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ratio
I met some friends for dinner last night. There were three married couples (men and women), a widow, and me. That ratio of five women and three men is typical of what I've experienced all my life.
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skipper
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posted on 07-26-2012 at 18:54 |
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the ugly woman's guide to internet dating
The Ugly Woman's Guide to Internet Dating, by Rosemary Thornton, copyright 2009.
This was the review I wrote for the local library's summer reading program:
Thornton's autobiographical account of the dates she had after her husband divorced her is meant to be funny, and there are lines in there that make you laugh-out-loud. But for someone like myself who has experienced being ignored because of her looks, the book is difficult to read at times. Sometimes I was near tears. This is a book that I wish MEN would read, moreso than the female audience it is meant for.
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skipper
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posted on 11-14-2012 at 18:22 |
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leagues
I considered myself at about a 3 growing up, and now I'm between 4 and 5, 6 a few times a year if I really work at it. I've lived my entire life in an area that has a much larger female than male population, and so quite often the only men that have paid attention to me are the 1's and 2's. I don't mean just physically homely, I mean severely obese, alcoholic or druggie, homeless, very physically or mentally disabled. But--and I know this is politically incorrect--I don't find them attractive.
Not just not physically attractive. Because I am an introvert, being around very needy people is exhausting to me. It feels like quite often that the other person is stealing my soul.
Are there other women out there who have been in this situation?
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skipper
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posted on 07-28-2013 at 09:17 |
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when did the ratio change?
For decades, centuries perhaps, there were always more female virgins than men, simply because there have always been more women than men in the world.
But in the past 20 years, something has changed. There are many, many more male virgins today than there have been in the past. Were there many more male babies being born since 1980 than female babies? (Yes, I know there is a large disparity in China, but does that affect North America?) I wonder if there are statistics out there that indicate the ratios of the past few decades.
As I've mentioned before, I didn't think I was unusual in being an older female virgin. But somehow that has changed drastically.
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northwildwoodnjman
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posted on 09-21-2013 at 15:14 |
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I wish I had women lined up. Only women that have ever seem attracted to me were those who were mentaly challanged and had a mind of 9 or 10 year old. People who are 1's or 2's on the scale of looks can love you just as much as those who are 9's and 10's. In fact I think the lower the number on the looks scale the less likely they will cheat due to the fact that its harder for them to meet people.
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northwildwoodnjman
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posted on 09-21-2013 at 15:14 |
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skipper
Junior Member
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Registered: 12-05-2011 Location:
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posted on 01-17-2014 at 20:45 |
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drew carey et al
The men who are attracted to me quite often look like Drew Carey. That isn't a problem! I can live with that! The problem comes when they reveal themselves as having the personality and intellect of Homer Simpson.
I figure if that's all I can get, I don't want it.
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skipper
Junior Member
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posted on 01-19-2014 at 22:12 |
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being ignored by boys
Have you ever seen the 1968 comedy "Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows"? Marvel Ann (Barbara Hunter) is very plain and dresses rather dowdily. The dance scene at the boys' school is a little difficult for me to watch, even though I adore this movie and have seen it dozens of times. Notice that Marvel Ann keeps going up to different boys to try to get them to dance with her, but they keep walking away from her. That's how boys treated me at dances and nightclubs when I was in high school and college.
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